Wow - for a "Defender of Common Sense", you show a huge lack of it in your writing. Let's just take one example: You say that abortion shouldn't be considered "murder" because there hasn't ever been a fetus who has "fought back". Wow - this is the best "common sense" argument you can think of? Then I guess killing a 2 month old is OK, because there isn't any record of them defending themselves either?

Let's continue down that line of thinking Mr. "Defender of Common Sense".....can you tell me why it is OK in this country to kill a child 2 weeks BEFORE it is born (given praise even by your fellow Pro-Choice people, and our wonderful President), but if you kill a child 2 weeks AFTER it is born, then yes, it is murder and people are put in jail because if it? Gee...I hate logic just as much as you do!

Ten things conservatives hate:
1. Facts
2. Logic
3. Women's equality
4. Gays
5. Blacks who aren't subservient to whites
6. Poor people
7. Hispanics who like to speak Spanish
8. Non-Christians
9. Universal health care -- unless it's Medicare for today's senior citizens (tomorrow's seniors, well....you're out of luck)
10. The environment

thanks, i appreciate your comments - and your satire - abortive procedures have been around since the Greek and Roman empires, this issue can not be legislated away - it will just move under-ground and then we will have another host of health care issues on our hands draining our system - and pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion - it means what is says, that women, and those men involved should have a choice, up to a point, and I too think Roe has struck a balance. Maybe if we made contraceptives more affordable and available and stop trying to shut down every Planned Parenthood in our communities this issue would lessen, just sayin'. I second your remark that all those screaming for less government involvement on one hand want it in the other,also most of those that are pro-life are also pro-capital punishment, which I also find quite a contradiction. How many of those that think pro-life/outlaw is the way to go have adopted one of the thousand of those children that are now unwanted and remain in foster care or some other child welfare facility? This does not even include all those children that remain in families where they are unwanted and unloved because more options and choice were not available when they were cells and it is cells initially, it is the potential for life, not life. Why don't we just outlaw all contraception, b/c if you follow this reasoning, that is abortion as well...thank you for a logical, progressive voice...

You cannot make the subjectivity of the mothers desire for her child the definition of human life. So if the mother wants the child then it is a life. But if it isiinconvenient and the mothber does not want the child then it is not a life?
There have been multiple cases in which a pregnant mother has been murdered and the accused is also charged with murder of the child in her womb, bercause the child is recognized as a human life! so the same country that can charge someone with murder of a child in the womb makes it legal to do so?

The blindness in our world is heartbreaking.

Every seed if allowed to grow bercomes a flower or a tomato or whatever it was meant to become. So too, a human life if allowed to grow will become a HUMAN not a flower or a tomato. Taking all religion out , it is still WRONG. It is MURDER. It is remarkable that we live in a world that refuses to acknowledge the value of all life.
Do pro abortionists ever stop to think that taking a child in the womb is only the beginnig of the slippery slope? They may be proud to be pro abortion because they were given the gift of life from their mother. However, with the mindset that states "anothers life that is inconveneint for me must be extinguished" is the mindset that may have someone murdering them if they become too old too ill or incapacitated to take care of themselves. What then? does life become sacred when it hits home?

Lynda,there is so much in you i would lke to reply to but it woudl be so much to type I will try.We all view lifew as a gift. We strive each day to stay alive and be healthy. It is a human instinct to survive. Every child conceived was given the gift of life. I undersatnd yoru implication that merely giving birth does not guarantee good parenting.
Caring for a child is a mothers gift. Does not every child deserve the opportunity to have this gift? When any woman goes in to delver, she is not interview and assesed to see if she will be a fit mother is she? There certainly are many people who find themselves as parents but did not plan.
That does not negate the truth that LIFE IS A GIFT. We are not debating the moralilty of every mother who gives birth.
whether that gift comes in the form of a mother who didnt plan or a mother who pined for years, the objective truth is that the child was given a gif. the gift of life that is not dependent on the mental or physiclal state of the mother.
We have lost the notion in our world that soem things JUST ARE.. No matter what differring opinions people have.
Having sex without the intention of being open to the potentia LIFE l is part of the crux of the problem. Sex is not a sport, it is not recreation. It is meant to be shared between married people who are willing to riase the life that may come form it.That is another discussion i suppose.

Hi everyone! There's a great debate going on here, but I'd like to remind you all that Patch requires you to use your real name, as seen in our terms of use: http://westlake.patch.com/terms

After Komen made the grave error of linking the right to access to health care to whether you are pro life or pro choice, we can see pro lifers will stop at nothing to impose their beliefs on others. Then millionmoms.org tried to get Ellen DeGeneres fired as spokesperson for J.C. Penney because of her personal life! Republicans are representing a repressive ideology for individuals and a no holds barred attitude toward corporations. They call President Obama a Socialist. Socialists believe in universal access to health care and education, and security for the elderly. I hope that moderate Republicans return because the current group feels pre-Gestapo with attacks on individual rights.

To all who have put forth comments, I am glad we live in a society where are able to speak out mind and not fear retribution. As a women's health care provider, I see women on both sides of this issue. Not a single women i have seen who has had a termination of pregnancy does so with a happy heart. There is much personal suffering involved in their decision. I cannot walk in their shoes. I cannot possibly know what they face when they look in the mirror. To all those who want to make choices for them, please think how you might feel if your choice was taken away from you. You are angry because government wants to make your healthcare decisions, how about what neighborhood you live in? Where does government making decisions for us stop?
I see picketers in front of planned parenthood each week. Their signs say "the pill and our cause abortion" This could not be further from the truth!
NOT having safe access to family planning causes women to have to make a heart-wrenching decision.
If we give women control over their reproductive lives and give them education, the whole of society will do better.

With folks on the left saying government should stay out of people's healthcare I wonder what they think, or what excuses they try to use to justify it, about the White House's decision to force religious run organizations to offer birth control as part of ObamaCare. Remember when the White House promised religious leaders of certain groups like Catholics, that their organizations would be exempt from government mandated birth control clauses in the healthcare law? Last week, they decided not to fulfill that promise. I'm not at all against wise contraception, but I agree with the true left that government should not mandate in the healthcare law what they promised religious organizations they would not do in regards to ObamaCare. Obama really messed up his support among Catholic Democrats when that decision went through a little more than a week ago. Also, I think Patrick's little title for himself should read: Antagonist. Offender of readers looking for true humor. This blog is not humorous no matter what side of the issue you are on. But, maybe he's hoping to get picked up on Huffington Post (some of those bloggers get paid). This seems right up their alley.

Patrick,
this particular piece really hurts your claim to be a humorist, it's not funny. Unfortunately, there is very little common sense or common ground on this issue. That's the way it is. One way or another it will finally be answered at some point and no one will be happy. Well, no one ever promised me my life would be happy. If they did, they lied.

I attacked no one AND I used my real full ... and MY comment gets deleted??

@Morgan- thanks for having the balls to use your real name!
Ciao, Patch

"Defender of the Common Sense." Hahaha is that what this article was? Guess what happens when someone "murders" a pregnant women???

I suppose it might have to do with their assertion that an abortion is a murder, but that seems to open up a lot more questions, like, “If an abortion procedure is an attempted murder, why haven’t any abortion doctors been killed by fetuses out of self-defense?”

If this is your idea of humor, then you are sadly mistaken. As a matter of fact, it's pathetic. I AM a woman, and I am "logical." Let's try this one for logic:

I park my car inside my garage. Does that magically make my car part of my garage?
Just because a baby is inside of me does not make it ME. A fetus, from THE VERY BEGINNING, is a completely different being from his or her mother. Totally different DNA. Totally different blood type. They are NOT the same person. Should we allow a baby to be killed because of its location? If so, do you agree with the forced murder of girl babies in China? I guess "logically," it's okay because, I mean, they're in China, right?

Loves it.

Did you know: Miscarriage is the most common type of pregnancy loss, according to the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG). Studies reveal that anywhere from 10-25% of all clinically recognized pregnancies will end in miscarriage.
So, what happens then? Is the woman going to jail for her bodies inability to carry a her fetus to term? How far down this rabbit hole are people willing to go? Will men be jailed for killing of thousands of potential babies a day, too? Isn't sperm alive and an intricate part of the "baby makin'" equation, also?

It's funny how America, the nation that can't keeps it's grubby fingers out of the bloody pie of war (and war = death), has the audacity to judge an individual who made the choice to get a 100% legal and safe medical procedure.

Also, when you buy something that says "Made in China", you can pat yourself on the back because not only are you supporting a communist country, you are supporting a country that has a one child policy. Where do the other children go? Ah yes, abortion, or just tossed into the gutter. Remember THAT while you're clamoring for that cheap bargain at Wal-Mart... Maybe it will remind you to step gracefully of that high moral horse you're riding.

This opinion by Giusto is pretty shallow and not creative for a "humorist". Giusto, I have watched and read George Carlin; You are no George Carlin.

There are times when abortion saves and there are times when abortion kills. For me my believe is to pray to God for answers and work with family for direction. The decision can not be easy.

"We really need to get over this love affair with the fetus and start worrying about children." - Joycelyn Elders

Non-living things do not have heartbeats!!!

" The right to liffe does not depend, and must not be contingent, on the pleasure of anyone else, not even a parent or a sovereign."--Mother Teresa

" Any country that accepts abortion is not teaching its people to love, but to use violence to get what it wants."--Mother Teresa.

" It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you can live as you wish."--Mother Teresa

Karyn
Your comment illustrates the pain of a woman facing an unwanted abortion Of course we must extend compassion to a woman who finds hereself in this situation. However, there's a problem with the quote that you chose to illustrate this. An animal in a trap wants to "gnaw off its own leg to save its life." What is the end result of the woman who has an abortion ? She still has life. The child is dead. The child is denied the same opportunity to be able to "choose" his or her course ,the same privilege the mother feels she is entitled to.The child never has the chance to 'gnaw off" his own leg to save his life.The end can never justify the means. It is a painful truth for a woman who may find the course of her life changed forever. Whether she aborts, parents or puts the child up for adoption , her life will never be as it was. As much pain as she may find herself in, taking the life of an unborn child can never justify it. It is a myth to believe that abortion " frees" a woman to go on. It is widely accepted that there are long term psychological effects for post abortive women. I would urge you to visit www.rachelsvineyard.org to read some of the quotes by women who are still suffering from their decision to abort.
Here is one:"My abortion has left me empty, alone, and in despair. It has taken me to a place I almost couldnt come back from. The self hatred I see every time I look into the mirror has been my constant companion for the last 10 years. "

Well said Maria - you should consider blogging on the Patch on a regular basis.

I think the position for the "Defender of Common Sense" is open :-)!

Is it reasonable to have 3 or 4 or 5 abortions??

From statistical information it appears that 25% of the women that have had abortions have had more than 2 abortion procudures in their lifetime.

Can we agree that abortion in essence, is euthanasia for the unborn? Can we also agree that, for many of us, our passion for life is diminished significantly once the child is actually born, particularly into poverty and outside of marriage? Would it be safe to conclude that the most dangerous place for an unwanted child is in the womb, but that life is by no means guaranteed or easy after birth? Can we finally agree that capital punishment is another form of abortion or euthanasia? The life issue is clearly complex, pro and con, womb to tomb.

Shawn - it really isn't that complex. A priest once said the following : "God is Lord of Life and Death, and we the in-between". God creates life, and God should have lordship over each person's death. We control what we do between those two events - and it should not include killing others - especially innocent others. Absolutely some people's life is more difficult than other people's - but killing other people isn't the answer. How can you tell at birth that someone born into poverty isn't going to rise to great heights? If you think abortion is euthanasia - you would believe that someone knows pre-birth exactly how that baby's life would end up. I don't think anyone can say that with certainty.

It is really simple.......a baby is conceived - it should be able to live its natural life without fear of being murdered.....it may not be an easy life - but who is the judge of where that line should be drawn? Certainly not fallible man!

First and foremost, I'd like to thank everyone for reading my blogs. I'd also like to thank Patch for giving me a forum for my writing.

I've been reading the comments piling up here. A lot of them have been directed at me, personally-- and that's fine, as long as you're adhering to Patch rules. I work with high school kids during the daytime; and in the evening, I come home to politicians, pundits, and random idiots via every form of media who call me names like "union thug" and "underperforming teacher." You're going to have a tough time insulting me.

What does interest me, though, is that the majority of comments do not seem to address the central question of this piece. Many seem to have read the word "abortion" and not continued reading to the end before angrily lashing out at either myself or someone else on here for their viewpoints. And, frankly, I didn't spend a couple days crafting an 800+ word satire so you could read 300 words of it and start yelling.

If I could have one wish, it would be for you to discuss what this piece is actually about, and that is: "If pro-life legislation like Initiative 26 were enacted nationally... then what?" How do you enforce such a law?

My assertion is that our solutions are becoming more complex than the problem itself. Neither this "solution," nor a radical leftist solution like eugenics, fixes anything. Roe v. Wade is in the middle between those extremes.

In that dynamic, defending it is, truly, common sense.

Patrick - I beg you to read through all of the Pro-Life comments again....we absolutely WERE answering your article, all 800+ words of it. What your piece was "actually about" was just so outlandish you may not have fully comprehended that we were dealing with exactly what you meant - to the very core.

Let me rephrase things for you in an effort to help you understand where I'm coming from. Life begins at conception. Therefore, to the ProLife community, your main question was this...."What if we made it ILLEGAL to MURDER INNOCENT CHILDREN?"

See how preposterous your main premise is?

Everyone tries to "sugar coat" this, pretending that it is "really complicated", but there is nothing complicated about abortion....at its very essence it is the MURDER of INNOCENT CHILDREN. I'm sorry if that is shocking - but sometimes the truth, and logic, can shock.

If I had "one wish", it would be that people would stop sugar coating abortion and talk about it in the cold, hard facts of what it is. See, in that context, your assertion really is "too complex for the problem". Roe .v. Wade is absolutely not a "middle ground" between extremes - it is VERY extreme - it is ALLOWING the MURDER of INNOCENT CHILDREN. How can that NOT be thought of as very, very, very EXTREME. If we start treating human life with the dignity and respect it deserves - the answer to your question becomes obvious (and simple).

Finally, since I'm not a politician or a pundit, I'm going to assume you were calling me (and the other pro-life posters) "random idiots". Since you work for the Patch, I'm going to assume that this is within the posting guidelines, but at least we are speaking from a position of truth!

When does life begin? If a baby in a mothers womb is a live, uniquely individual person, then who has the right to end that life? We know that a baby in a mothers womb is a unique human being, science is clear on this point.

There can be no middle ground on this issue, the baby in a mothers womb is either a life or it is not a life. Because if we as a society allow the mother or anyone else to kill the baby in the womb, and at the same time allow that he or she is a life, then that life is a second class of citizen. And our Country declared it's Independence with the self-evident truth that all of us are created equal.

Where do you draw the line? What children are to be saved?
Do you pay taxes? If so, you support war.
Don't those women, children, babies in the womb, men and all other humans we bomb, torture and kill deserve the same chance to be a unique human being? Which babies are entitled to this? We are a nation that as recent as the 70's were still sterilizing people (eugenics) who were low income upon various other reasons. Their unique children weren't the ones people were worried about saving?

What about the wonderful mother with 4 beautiful children who finds she is pregnant with her fifth, only to find out she will die if she has the child. What about the lives of the 4 children who are already there? The mother? Is that child then going to be carted off to jail when it's born and the mother dies?
What if a mother with 3 or 4 children loses her husband and finds out she's pregnant days after his death. What are her options? How is she to handle the load she already has topped with a new baby? Can she keep the house? How will she feed her children, herself?
What about the woman in an abusive relationship who is trying desperatly to escape with her own life, but finds herself pregnant. Should she be forced to not only endure her abuse, but bring another into this world to bask in a lifetime of abuse, also? There are a plethora of reasons women seek an abortion. I hope none of you ever have to make that decision, but I will support you if you do.

@ Karen I really dont understand one of your previous posts regarding heartbeats. BTw have you looked at images of a 8 week oll fetus? I challenge yhou to call htat a "blob" of tissue. At the root of every aboriton decision is as Mother Tersa said" the desire to live as you wish" You can fill in the blanks to mean whatever you wish. It doesnt mean that there may not be good reasons for a woman to be in crisis but you cannot MURDER a human life because of it. We have come ot believe in society that we are entitled to live a life that is without strife. Adoption is another option we have not heard much about here. What is the good reason to not to allow the child to live even if you cannot raise it?

I would urge you to google the name. Gianna Beretta Molla. She was an italian pediatrician who died in 1962@ the age of 39, one week after giving birth to her 4th chld. While pregant with that child shwe was warned that it wwould be too dangerous to proceed with her preganancy due to a tumor growing in her uterus. She refused the abortion and hysterectomy that would have saved her life but taken the life of her child. She was canoninzed a saint by JOhn Paul 11 in 2004. He praised her "extreme sacrifice" through her simple but profound act.
Now here was a child to be born of a pediatrician who clearly jknew better than any of us laymen about the risks,. She had a very 'good reason" to abort her baby but did not
choose that. In fact she died to allow her child to live.

@ karyn in an ealier post you spoke to Ron and said he will never be pregnant, never bear a child and so will never have to make that choice.. REALLY?? Hmm soi I see it is only a WOMANS 'right " to choose to murder her child? The man has no say in it?
What about his right? Spare me the it is a" womans" my body line.... It is her body but she does not have the right to cut off the life supply to the child growing in her womb. It is not a blob. it is a person with his own DNA. His own fingerprints. It is a separate being. It is not PART of the womans body. She supplies nutrients and life to a SEPARATE HUMAN BEING . . Why does the man not have any say in it? It is his child as well. A mothers "DESIRE" CANNOT DICTATE the definition of a human life.
The moral relativism that is woven through every one of your comments and those of all anti life proponents is the real problem. There are lots of reasons that a woman is in crisis. but murder is murder. everything is NOT RELATIVE. Some things are right and somethings are wrong. There is something called ABSOLUTE TRUTh.

I like the anti abortion people that are pro death penalty...juxtaposition

Dan,

Then the murder statute should be no different for murdering a pregnant women than murdering any other person. And if the pregnant women is assaulted and loses the pregnancy it should be called an "accidental abortion" .

Over several centuries and in different cultures, there is a rich history of women helping each other to abort. Until the late 1800s, women healers in Western Europe and the U.S. provided abortions and trained other women to do so, without legal prohibitions.

The State didn't prohibit abortion until the 19th century, nor did the Church lead in this new repression. In 1803, Britain first passed antiabortion laws, which then became stricter throughout the century. The U.S. followed as individual states began to outlaw abortion. By 1880, most abortions were illegal in the U.S., except those ``necessary to save the life of the woman.'' But the tradition of women's right to early abortion was rooted in U.S. society by then; abortionists continued to practice openly with public support, and juries refused to convict them.
Abortion became a crime and a sin for several reasons. A trend of humanitarian reform in the mid-19th century broadened liberal support for criminalization, because at that time abortion was a dangerous procedure done with crude methods, few antiseptics, and high mortality rates. But this alone cannot explain the attack on abortion. For instance, other risky surgical techniques were considered necessary for people's health and welfare and were not prohibited. ``Protecting'' women from the dangers of abortion was actually meant to control them and restrict them to their traditional child-bearing role.

Then, as now, making abortion illegal neither eliminated the need for abortion nor prevented its practice. In the 1890s, doctors estimated that there were two million abortions a year in the U.S. (compared with one and a half million today). Women who are determined not to carry an unwanted pregnancy have always found some way to try to abort. All too often, they have resorted to dangerous, sometimes deadly methods, such as inserting knitting needles or coat hangers into the vagina and uterus, douching with dangerous solutions like lye, or swallowing strong drugs or chemicals. The coat hanger has become a symbol of the desperation of millions of women who have risked death to end a pregnancy. When these attempts harmed them, it was hard for women to obtain medical treatment; when these methods failed, women still had to find an abortionist.

Worldwide, 20 million unsafe abortions are performed annually. This equals one unsafe abortion for every ten pregnancies and one unsafe abortion for every seven births.
Ninety percent of unsafe abortions are in developing countries.
One-third of all abortions worldwide are illegal. More than two-thirds of countries in the Southern Hemisphere have no access to safe, legal abortion.
Estimates of the number of women who die worldwide from unsafe abortions each year range from 70,000 to 200,000. This means that between 13 and 20% of all maternal deaths are due to unsafe abortion--in some areas of the world, half of all maternal deaths. Of these deaths, 99% are in the developing world, and most are preventable.
Half of all abortions take place outside the health care system.
One-third of women seeking care for abortion complications are under the age of 20.
About 40% of the world's population has access to legal abortion (almost all in Europe, the former Soviet Union, and North America), although laws often require the consent of parents, state committees, or physicians.
Worldwide, 21% of women may obtain legal abortions for social or economic reasons.
Sixteen percent of women have access only when a woman's health is at risk or in cases of rape, incest, or fetal defects.
Five percent have access only in cases of rape, incest, or life endangerment.
Eighteen percent have access only for life endangerment.

Karyn, about all I can say is that you are sincerely in my prayers tonight.

"I notice everyone who is forabortion is already born." Ronald REagan. karyn not sure why you would choose to quote such a pro life champion. youve not made one original statement or reply lately...i gave you about 6 posts to respond to in your own words... what you sent was more inadequate justifications for murdering an innocent life. get real now. weve established you do a mean "famous quotes"Google search...give it a rest now and reply to the comments made here.Killing is wrong..There is a world of pakn and auffwring

****There is a world of pain and suffering.i noticed u did not reply to my comment regarding the saint who Chose death so her child could live?? Hows that for a "choice"

There is one important thing that is being left out here. This seems to be turning into a religious debate. One cannot force someone to believe in God... it's a pointless and frustrating task. What really needs to be pointed out is that whether or not you believe in God in this argument really doesn't matter. Abortion is NOT a religious question. Abortion is NOT a religious debate. As a matter of fact, many atheists and agnostics are pro-life. Surprised? You shouldn't be.

Medical textbooks and scientific reference works consistently agree that human life begins at conception. Some of the world's most prominent scientist and physicians testified to a US Senate committee that human life begins at conception.

Major polls clearly indicate that the majority, not the minority, believes that there should be GREATER restrictions on abortion. In 1973 the US Supreme Court imposed a minority morality on the nation, ignoring the votes of citizens and the decisions of state legislatures.

Callie
What a great point. Though I would never hide my faith, I also understand that others may not share it. And indeed abortion, is wrong and you dont need to be religious to understand that. thanks for making this point.
Taking all religion out of it, there is plenty of science to defend the taking of human life.

"Anything may happen when womanhood has ceased to be a protected occupation.”
― Virginia Woolf

“My own sex, I hope, will excuse me, if I treat them like rational creatures, instead of flattering their fascinating graces, and viewing them as if they were in a state of perpetual childhood, unable to stand alone.”
― Mary Wollstonecraft

I am a Christian who believes abortion should be a choice. There are so many unwanted children being born in this country everyday. Many women are unable to take care of these children properly and the vicious cycle of poverty and neglect continues! The most ironic part in all of this is that Republicans want to elliminate abortion, yet don't want to pay higher taxes to take care of all of these babies that are born and in need. Wake up and smell the reality before you judge someone else and their personal decision. What have you done lately to help those in need?

It is great to live in a society where we can all speak our minds openly. I do not support abortion just to get rid of an inconvenient pregnancy. If we taught our children to respect their bodies and to be responsible for their choices in life, as so many other bloggers have said, there would be a lot less need for abortions. And as great as it is to speak our opinions, it should be just that. Our government has no business getting involved in this. If we have our government telling us "no, you cannot", or "yes, you can", where does it stop?!? Look at all the things our government is trying to step into! No Child Left Behind is a perfect example of our government stepping in and taking over, and we all see how successful that has been. Government should stay out. People CAN speak their minds and share their opinions without attacking other individuals!

Another thing, Initiative 26 doesn't take into account that at least half of all Americans takes at least one prescription drug, with one in six taking three or more medications. Many medications are implicated in severe, debilitating birth defects. Throw in Pfizer recalling birth control pills and suddenly there is cause for alarm. A woman taking, say anti-convulsants or some anti-depressants, finds her birth control pills were recalled but only after the fact that she finds out she is pregnant. The well documented and known risks with taking her specific medication for a fetus are possibly:
Fetal hydantoin syndrome includes a broad range of:
cranio facial malformations (broad nasal bridge, ocular hypertelorism, cleft lip/palate, abnormal ears), limb malformations (dislocated hip, small or absent nails); and congential heart defects, tumors and impaired physical and mental growth, Severe/fatal hemorrhagic disease of the newborn.

Yes, that sounds like a unique life, but not the one I want to force someone into.

This should outrage you also seeing that the taking of human life is involved:

Syrian forces unleashed new tank and rocket bombardments on opposition neighborhoods of Homs on Saturday while diplomats sought U.N. backing for an Arab plan to end 11 months of bloodshed in Syria.
Activists said seven people were killed in the latest attacks in a week-long government siege of Homs, a battered city at the heart of the uprising to oust President Bashar al-Assad.
Mohammed Hassan, one opposition campaigner in Homs, told Reuters by satellite telephone that a 55-year-old woman was among those killed by shellfire on the Bab Amro district.
The bloodshed followed a day of violence across Syria on Friday, when bombings targeting security bases killed at least 28 people in Aleppo and rebel fighters battled troops in a Damascus suburb after dark...
...The government offensive on opposition-held, mostly Sunni Muslim areas of Homs has killed at least 300 people in the past week, according to activists. Food and medical supplies are running low in blockaded areas, where many people are trapped in their houses, fearful of coming under fire if they step out.
Accounts could not be independently confirmed as Syria restricts access by most foreign journalists.
Youtube footage provided by activists showed a doctor at a field hospital next to the body of the woman. "Shrapnel hit her in the head and completely drained her brain matter," he says.

i bet that Catholic priests never used contrception when they molested children. Also how come the Bishops and Cardinals were silent when all the scandal about priests molesting children was going on. Not one church leader spoke up and said that the Bishops should turn in the names of the priest who molested the children. This church is two faced

Since a large part of this discussion has degenerated into a battle of quotes, I thought I'd supply some quotes of Margaret Sanger via a recent article Michelle Malkin wrote. Ms. Sanger is the founder of Planned Parenthood - and a GODDESS to all of the pro-death crowd. Let's read a few quotes that show exactly what it is you are fighting for:

--start of quotes from Michelle Malkin's article--
"As she wrote in her autobiography, Sanger founded Planned Parenthood in 1916 “to stop the multiplication of the unfit.” This, she boasted, would be “the most important and greatest step towards race betterment.” While she oversaw the mass murder of black babies, Sanger cynically recruited minority activists to front her death racket. She conspired with eugenics financier and businessman Clarence Gamble to “hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities” to sell their genocidal policies as community health and welfare services.

Outright murder wouldn’t sell. But wrapping it under the egalitarian cloak of “women’s health” — and adorning it with the moral authority of black churches — would. Sanger and Gamble called their deadly campaign “The Negro Project.”

--end of quotes from Michelle Malkin's article--

Wow - this is the garbage you are fighting for?????

I hold it to be the inalienable right of anybody to go to hell in his own way.
~Robert Frost

People say life begins at conception, I say life began about a billion years ago and it's a continuous process.
-The Man

The longer you listen to this abortion debate, the more you hear the phrase "sanctity of life," "sanctity of life." You believe in it? Personally, I think it's a bunch of ****. I mean, life is sacred? Who said so? God? Hey, if you read history, you realize that God is one of the leading causes of death.
- The Man

Karyn C.,
Mocking the comment doesn't disprove it. Hitler had no religion, he used or destroyed anything that stood in his way. As for Democrat LBJ, I'll let you judge. My comment was, as stated, specifically limited to the 20th century which you went beyond. Are you defending, or apologizing for the named examples I gave? Because evil went before them they get a pass. Seems like it to me.

“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”
― Aldous Huxley

"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
Steven Weinberg

“One of the truly bad effects of religion is that it teaches us that it is a virtue to be satisfied with not understanding.”
― Richard Dawkins

Karyn C.,
Obviously, you don't even listen to yourself. How can you expect others to respect your opinions.
“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”

Karyn it is unfortunate that you have chosen to continue to use others people quotes to define your position. Using quotes can be a good way to underscore an opinion.I think you're doing this our to fear . It allows you to hide behind someone elses thoughts protecting you from having to debate your position especially in the light of so much scientific eveidence . You have chosen to pick on people of faith and turned it into a debate on religion. We can completely remove religion and still have a discussion. Pro life people come in all faiths or even no faith. It is not a matter of Faith it is a matter of fact. Abortion is the taking of human life. Crisis pregnancy is tragic but reasons cannot be justifications for the atrocity of abortion. It is not a judgment of the woman who finds herself in crisis, it isthe judgment of the act that is not acceptable. I applaud James for continuing to fight the good fight by continuing the one sided debate with you as you continue to just post quotes. Really at this pont it is quite silly! It really has become too much of a "good " thing .. Anyway, I will continue to keep you and all those who promote the culture of death, in my prayers. I will pray ultimately for your conversion from atheism or whatever it is you believe. But that is not up to me. It is up to God. For now, I will pray that you come to see abortion is wrong from a scientific standpoint. Peace to you..

" Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do."-- Jesus

Patrick, I fail to find the "humor" and "common sense" in your column. Quite frankly, your comments show a lack of intelligence and maturity. Why did you feel the need to be so insulting to those who are "pro-life" and to Christians? I found most of what you said to be untruthful and far-fetched. Actually, I am at a loss as to why Patch went ahead and ran this offensive column?
Until you experience life growing inside of you, I don't believe you have any say on this matter. I am a mother who, for health reasons, had an ultrasound at 6 weeks with each of my children. Each time, I saw the precious little heart of my baby and it was beating strong! This means, one week after I found out I was pregnant, I was able to see my little one alive and well in my womb. What a gift from God! Having a life grow inside of you is a true miracle and nothing to take lightly. Giving birth to a healthy baby is one of the most powerful indicators that there truly is a Heavenly Father overseeing this universe. God creates each life, yours and mine. One day we all will give an account for how we lived on this Earth. Thankfully, God is gracious and merciful and gives each of us a chance to turn from our sins and to Him. I could go on and on but I will not.
People may try to rationalize abortion but when it is all said and done, it is murder. Honestly, it is.

I would like to add that there are alternatives to abortion, the best being adoption. I know plenty of wonderful people waiting for a baby so they can be parents and great ones.
I am sorry Patrick, but you did not "solve the abortion debate." You did not even kindly consider the other side.
And to others who have made some very negative comments concerning how Christians feel about people who have abortions and the doctors who do them. No one hates them, especially Jesus. They made mistakes, like all of us.

Hi Emily
Both of your comments are beautifully and simply said. I couldnt agree with more with you . Yes , indeed as Christians we understand that Christ came for the sick not the well. We all fall short. Regarding adoption you are so right. I have brought this up before but no one seems to have wanted to acknowledge this as win win alternative.
Good Luck posting here. Glad to read yoru positive comments. I have tried to present some facts for discussion but unfortuately was met with alot of distsractions and refusal to discuss the issue honestly. Good Luck! Thanks for posting.God Bless you .

Yet another springboard for misogyny....why don't they just line us all up and shoot us one by one in the head, maybe the breast, maybe the uterus. What fun the sadists would have---to erase their mothers, sisters, grandmothers aunts, their cousins, their wives. And then inevitably, they point the gun to their own head. Ca -BLAM! the defenseless must always be the sport of the wealthy insane, or this who aspire to the gods of antiquity. When will Rome fall???

And of course the women have been turned against themselves...each becoming a task master filling in for the oppressor. Doctrine reigns supreme! Logical brain is god! You are shackling women, you are shackling Nature, but Nature always wins, hasn't anyone remembered that??

I think the article serves as a communal litmus test. We can see those among us and where they fall on this issue of a woman's reproduction and maternity. Ever see a mother rabbit eat her young? I had a friend who picked up the rabbit and threw it against a wall for doing that. Ever talk to a woman who had to have her fetus aborted? Ever walked in their shoes? Lived their lives? This is none of your business what a woman chooses to do. Not every woman is a Christian. Not every woman believes in a god. These women are not devils. But the people who make them suffer.

Hilary
This discussion can be had without Faith. As a Christian I have a right to be proud of my choice to love God as non belivers do in denying His existence.
Nevertheless, the science supports the fact. This is not about judging the woman who is in crisis. This is about the fact that abortion kills. No one is saying the women are devils. They are in crisis. If you love your fellow woman you tell her the truth about the lies the abortionists are trying to convince her of. Human life begins at conception. It is heart wrenching for a woman to be in this predicament but it cannot justify taking of a life. WE can see it is a child.
Post abortion trauma is real. Abortion is not a magic cure. It oftne causes more heartache and suffering for the woman down the road. I

"As a Christian I have a right to be proud of my choice to love God as non belivers do in denying His existence" yes you do have that right. But that right does not extend itself to another woman's uterus.

How does your comment speak to the rest of my post? My first senetence is in refernece to yourr comment that not every woman is a Christian . I was merely pointing out that I will not be villified because i AM a Christian. .
youve taken an opportunity to put a one liner in about a womans uterus. The life INSIDE that womans uterus is a PERSON. That is a right "endowed by our Creator" not some right given by government.
It is not a womans body . It is a separate life conatined in a SEPARATE body. No one is condemnig the woman. Some things in life are tragic and traumatic. But you cannot violate the basic righ to life of the unborn child. Where is the childs right to "choose" ? After the womans choice" she is alive. The child is dead. Her right to life is more important than the childs? Take religion out Hilary. It is science. It is a life. It is a separate life with his /her own dna. own fingerprints. I mean come on. Lets stop the pretending. Do you and your mom have the same fingerprints ? Babies are "carried" in their mothers womb. They are not PART of it like an organ. Start doing some research and look up images of babies at 6 weeks. It is not a blob . It is a very very small human life with a heartbeat and his own genetic map unfolding day by day and month by month, OPEN YOUR EYES. Give the child as much right to 'CHOOSE' his path as the mother.

Take religion out. Science is sufficient to prove it. There are even ';athiesist for life"
Honestly..

You are talking about yourself not me

I don't know you, and you don't know me. Maybe we should keep i that way. As a mother of two children who i love more than anything in the world, and as a Jew I know for myself the value of my life and the value of my children. And I also know the value of choice, the importance of it. You have no place in my uterus, or in my ovum, or my husbands sperm. My fetus is a part of my body. So...if anything else, I have been speaking about MY right to choose. And MY body. So naturally I would believe that other women have that same right. Forgive me, my sin of being human. My sin of survival. My sin of being me. If only all of humanity was as righteous as you.

And as I was told so much in Catholic school "pride cometh before the fall"

This argument can go on forevery. But the final decision comes down to the women and what only she can decide to due. She has a right and only her to have the child, put it up for adoption or have a abortion. NO GOVERNMENT FEDERAL, STATE, NO RELIGION has a right to make laws or decide for a women. She has the choice to do what ever she wants to do. Instead of fighting back and forth stand up for all women and tell them its their right to choose.

Thank you Dan! We appreciate your comment!

well...I am truly moved by all the passion. As an open forum for OPINIONS, I am so moved to throw in my few remarks.
Life and the definition... beginnings...endings...choice...God...rights...
As for me, and many, Life is all about choice. Choices. With or without a God a basic truth is apparent. A fertilized egg is indeed life. It can grow. It can develop a heart and move and suck its digits. It can not survive without fetal respiration. VIA THE PLACENTA AND UMBILICAL CORD. It is not viable. It is not stable. There is nothing any form of medicine can do to fully support and develop a fetus to viable gestation without an attachment to a woman's uterus. Having stated pure facts, I do not personally believe in abortion. I do feel it has tremendous social and psychological implications. H O W E V E R...
I WILL FIGHT FOR ANY WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE. I will never willingly allow any woman, nay, HUMAN to be bullied into flesh slavery. Perhaps that's harsh, but essentially, it is slavery. I have held crying women, desperate for the answers to an impossible dilemma, explained gestation to a 12yr old that was drugged and raped by her uncle. Explained the morality of using abortion as BIRTH CONTROL. Counseling a woman that has been gang raped of her moral obligation to society to have the baby has never been part of my thought process. I have done everything in my power to support the women that chose to have the baby after such monstrous deeds were committed against them...

well...I am truly moved by all the passion. As an open forum for OPINIONS, I am so moved to throw in my few remarks.
Life and the definition... beginnings...endings...choice...God...rights...
As for me, and many, Life is all about choice. Choices. With or without a God a basic truth is apparent. A fertilized egg is indeed life. It can grow. It can develop a heart and move and suck its digits. It can not survive without fetal respiration. VIA THE PLACENTA AND UMBILICAL CORD. It is not viable. It is not stable. There is nothing any form of medicine can do to fully support and develop a fetus to viable gestation without an attachment to a woman's uterus. Having stated pure facts, I do not personally believe in abortion. I do feel it has tremendous social and psychological implications. H O W E V E R...
I WILL FIGHT FOR ANY WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE. I will never willingly allow any woman, nay, HUMAN to be bullied into flesh slavery. Perhaps that's harsh, but essentially, it is slavery. I have held crying women, desperate for the answers to an impossible dilemma, explained gestation to a 12yr old that was drugged and raped by her uncle. Explained the morality of using abortion as BIRTH CONTROL. Counseling a woman that has been gang raped of her moral obligation to society to have the baby has never been part of my thought process. I have done everything in my power to support the women that chose to have the baby after such monstrous deeds were committed against them...

I would never rescue a girl from a sex slave operation and expect she should be pressured into having the baby. Educated. Not pressured.
When does the fetus become a baby? For me it has always been the same. When the mother recognizes it as such. When the decision is made inside the woman's heart and mind, it becomes a baby and not a fetus. It is murder when the mother has chosen to accept the responsibility and carry the baby to term, (and no decision "do-overs" late in the term.) We all answer to our own God, (or lack of.) I will not raise my daughter to be anything other than what she is. THE MOST POWERFUL THING CREATED. All women are mighty. They hold the power of creation as granted by God, life, cosmos, or whatever. With power comes responsibility. Sometimes that means putting our own personal beliefs on the back burner to allow another to have their freedoms. Were are only truly free when we afford others the same freedoms. We truly can agree to disagree. We may be passionate to ourselves, but in the end, must recognize that others want that very same thing. Abortion is a fact of life. It is, and has been, forever. I for one do not choose it for myself, but recognize its place in society. I shall be free when all women are free to make their own choices and live and die in their own consequences. I shall never force any woman to have back alley procedures, or poison herself. And, I will always, no matter what, fight for your right to disagree with me.

AMEN!

I am disappointed to see Patch not enforcing their own terms of service with regard to names. People posting here might use a different tone if their first and last names were posted with their comments as per policy. The very first commentor didn't even follow the rules and he posted over 10 days ago. Where's the oversight here, Patch?

There is a special place in hell for women who do not help other women. ~Madeleine K. Albright

Because women's work is never done and is underpaid or unpaid or boring or repetitious and we're the first to get fired and what we look like is more important than what we do and if we get raped it's our fault and if we get beaten we must have provoked it and if we raise our voices we're nagging bitches and if we enjoy sex we're nymphos and if we don't we're frigid and if we love women it's because we can't get a "real" man and if we ask our doctor too many questions we're neurotic and/or pushy and if we expect childcare we're selfish and if we stand up for our rights we're aggressive and "unfeminine" and if we don't we're typical weak females and if we want to get married we're out to trap a man and if we don't we're unnatural and because we still can't get an adequate safe contraceptive but men can walk on the moon and if we can't cope or don't want a pregnancy we're made to feel guilty about abortion and...for lots of other reasons we are part of the women's liberation movement. ~Author unknown, quoted in The Torch, 14 September 1987

I used my real name, now.

Though " Hilary" is the name many people call me. And of course, I used my maiden name, which I still use.

Karyn
Funny enough i read your post and agreed with all of it until you got to the contraception and abortion part. I think I found some common ground here
It truly is a struggle to be respected as a woman,. Unfortunately the taking of human life isnt the way to flex our female muscle. It is just a wrong thing to do. It has nothing to do with the injustices we sometimes suffer as woman in this world.
We show our power and our mightiness as co creators in life that God gave us. He made us strong in mind heart and body to give new life. What a gift we were given.
We can bring new life in the world. Killing a new lfe just doesnt jive with being a good stewarde of the unique role in nature bestowed upon us .
Aside from this abortion debate, though, I would challenge you to think about sacrifice. Think about the people you love and love you. There is sacrifice involved in love. To truly love is to put that person before you. Why do you not see that putting a chiild first by giving it life is no different? No one is saying every person who is pregnant wants or shoudl be a mother. There are 2 solutions. The first is you do'nt engage in sex that creates life. Everyone makes mistakes. If you do something you shouldnt have then you TAKE RESPONSIBILITY.you allow the child to live and allow it to be adopted if you do not feel you can parent. You continue on your path and allow the child the chance at creating his own path in life.
it is not about condemning. It really isnt.

In Eastern thought heaven and hell are states of mind. we create our heaven or we create our hell. All faiths and creeds can apply their own meanings to it---secular and religious a like. Maybe the quote could be read as " a woman who betrays another woman's life will be/ or is emotionally and mentally tormented". And of course, betrayal could mean a lot of things depending on who the victim and the perpetrator are. Like everything else, it is a matter of perspective and life-orientation. The world is a vast and diverse place.

Sorry to who wrote this piece..... How can you not expect women to get riled up over it? Especially when their vaginas, uterus, and methods of birth control are up for grabs in politics and government.

the birth control I have in mind methods such as preventative action...you know, male condoms, female condoms, IUD's, cervical caps, injections, THE PILL, spermacide, the rhythm method, and natural family planning.

Seems as though not only are abortions to be banned, but they are also working on birth control.

"12yr old that was drugged and raped by her uncle", Maria, would you force a twelve year old girl with an undeveloped pelvis to carry a baby and then give birth to it? Young girls the world over ( even America) have died because of this. fistulas, hemorrhage. Death. I believe that incest is a practice condemned by 'Avrahamic' religions, and is dealt with on serious terms, one of which is the victim aborting the fetus. Of course the tiny life inside the victim was tormented at the onset. I still stand firm Maria, when I say you have no place in another woman's uterus, vagina or soul. We are not playing advocate here. I am standing my ground about my choice, and my female instincts you know nothing about me, I know nothing about you. We know nothing of the trevails of other women, so what we can do for everyone is give them freedom over THEIR bodies.

Sad that I said 'give' ...we 'give' freedom to no one, freedom is a basic human right.

Ok...I know I opened a whole can of worms here. ( places target above head) *gulp*

Le'ah, if freedom is a basic "human" right, then why isn't that freedom applied to the humans that are pre-born? Freedom is obviously not a basic human "right."

I am all for giving people "freedom" over their own bodies. Unfortunately, a pre-born HUMAN has its own body that it "deserves" freedom over. A pre-born human is NOT the same thing as its mother. It has its own DNA, its own blood type, its own circulatory, nervous, muscular, reproductive system. It's ridiculous to preach "freedom" out of one side of your mouth and advocate death out of the other side. I'm not going to change your mind, obviously, but please, be logical. Parking my car inside my garage doesn't magically make it a garage. It's still a car. It's a COMPLETELY separate thing.

Ok Callie. On this comment board, you 'win'. I'm a disgusting woman. I'm a baby killer ( i havent had an abortion. I have two babies of my own born of my free will) i am also a heartless and foul wench. And you are more righteous than me. Does it feel good? Does it? I'm talking how you want me to talk. But you will never place your idealogies upon my body, you will never have legal action upon my body. That angers and infuriates you. As well it should. You can only type words on here. We are all typing words. On the Internet relatively meaningless. We each go to bed each night and wet our pillows with our sorrows and regrets. You will never live my live and I will never live theres. And there is a great blessing in that.

Sorry about the stupid Autocorrect. Pls excuse the bad typos.

*you will never live my life, and I will never live yours" is what I meant to type.

Le-ah, I am not trying to "win." I merely want people to stop labeling themselves with "pro-choice" and/or "pro-life." Just be logical. Not all people believe that abortion is wrong because of religious beliefs or because they are trying to "control" other people. It's just because they believe that we shouldn't end a life. If you have time, watch www.180movie.com. It's incredibly interesting.

Callie, thank you for leveling with me. I guess that is what I was searching for. Someone I disagreed with who still views me as a human being. I will watch that video. I don't know if I will agree with it, but I feel it is important to at least see your point of view, even though I feel so strongly about mine. I do have to say that I went to private school ( not Jewish) when I was a child, and in 9th grade our health teacher showed us videos of abortions being performed. Some parents were outraged, some were happy. But those images always stuck with me. Even when I was abducted and raped at 15. So I see both sides... Almost having to consider having an abortion if I was pregnant from the rape ( I would have killed myself if it was so). My mom suffered a lot through the whole ordeal. What was she going to tell me? She was raised in a sexually abusive environment herself. I can say that with all of my pregnancies I felt a sublime sort of connection to my baby. It did start out as a fetus to me, but then I grew attached to it, and then saw it as a unborn child. Because of what I have been through, I could never bring myself to say what other women should do in their situations. I realize many people who are grouped under the label 'pro life' have suffered immensely on this issue as well. I am sorry I let my emotions over come me. This is a scary time for all women....of all situations, classes, and of all types of health. I am a cynic in a sense. But I try to have hope.

And I realized this. Just now. I grew up in a tradition that reads the Talmud and looks at Halackah ( Jewish law) on all aspects of life. I viewed my fetus as a part of my body. ( I'm nervous getting into this here because I'm afraid I'll be under attack, but feel it's important to open up and put a human visage to this) I didn't view it this way based on halackic rulings, but rather on a intuitive basis. Having said that. Their is a Talmud debate over abortion actually. In the end, one of the rulings is that the fetus is a part of the woman's body. ( in Jewish tradition, the fetus has different stages of spiritual development as well as physical. For instance there is a story that an angel is with the unborn personally teaching it the whole Torah. And then the angel touches the infant upon the lips so that they will forget it all upon birth...personally I always loved this story). We have the tradition of not giving a name until after the birth. A hamsah worn during pregnancy to ward off demons that seek to harm the mother and fetus ( I say fetus because I feel it to be objective here) and to protect against a hard birth. As a Jew I am steeped in teachings and Torah wisdom that tell me and my kin--- Am Yisrael that we are to choose life when given a choice between life and death.

As my ancestors have passed down to me, the choice isn't so clear and drought with opposition from 'the nations',  or others who are not Yidden. In other words, i cannot join the movement that will dictate for women what to do with their reproductive organs, and the life that grows therein. As a Jew, I have my own path to follow. as a Jew I know what slavery means---slavery of the body, slavery of the spirit, slavery over competing morale, and in the case as been suggested with unwanted pregnancies forced to term by abortion abolition---"flesh slavery". My ancestors endured it all. It is wired into my consciousness to survive, and therefore to not stand idly by. I am not talking about my religion, ( I don't have one...I'm a Jewish 'atheist'...lol) and I guess I shouldn't get more personal here. If you are interested in talking about our cultural/ancestral differences, then I will be honored to share in that dialogue. And I only bring up my spiritual and personal heritage as a Jewess, because there are mostly religious sentiments from other faiths on this comment board. And felt the need to put forth another view, another group of people who dwell in this land. There is a diverse world community---those who view life in a myriad of ways. I just don't see how my belief can trump theirs on this issue.

Le'ah - thank you for sharing, and I would love to know more about your history. It is fascinating to me. I didn't realize you were Jewish, but that may make the www.180movie.com even more sobering and interesting to you. Did you have a chance to watch it? I'm interested to hear your thoughts regarding it.

CallIe, I did watch the video. I stuck with it, even though at some points I had to fast forward ( concentration camp pictures...because of my family, what I have seen from survivors). I was deeply troubled that the analogy of abortion to genocide of thousands of Jews was made with abortion--- an issue equally as complex, for different reasons. Abortions happened in the camps. A skilled midwife would have to place her hand in the womb to abort the fetus of all those pregnant. The pregnant Jews and Gypsies suffered an awful fate at the hands of Dr. Mengele and other Mazi doctors, who would perform horrible medical experiments on the women and their fetuses. Aborting this way allowed the women to keep their lives, at least for the moment, and the newly born babies were spared their torture upon birth, if they weren't shot in the head first. A Jew narrated the film, true. But his view does not echo the view of all Jews, and yes there are those of us who are both pro life AND pro choice ( I myself am both).

As a Jew this movie was difficult on many levels...... I think the maker of the film displays ignorance of the past and present

Callie E. - That video was terrible. the analog between the holocaust and abortion is utterly stupid and manipulative. the person doing the interviews sounds like a ritual abuser the way he is able to manipulate people with traumatic images. telling a Jew that this video would be sobering and informative is utterly idiotic, and if the moderator doesn't remove this link i will know how utterly biased the discussion monitors are on Patch. Don't use my dead relatives to push your agenda. I feel deep sympathy for anybody who would find this video moving or inspirational. it is like. it is like being inpired by a rapist.

While I’m pro-choice, I don’t like abortion. The pro-life advocate doesn’t like abortion. In fact, the scared teenage girl going to the clinic doesn’t even like abortion. No one ever said, “Gee, I’m feeling kinda gloomy today. I think an abortion would perk me up.” Some people see abortion as the greater of two evils and others see it as the lesser of two evils, but everyone sees it as a bad thing.
-
Bob Seidensticker

David - while you may not see the parallels between the holocaust and abortion, the fact remains that the parallels are THERE. Unfortunately, as Ian Kershaw once said, "The road to Auschwitz was built by hate but paved with indifference." That's the same thing that is happening in our country right before our very eyes. We are all so apathetic, so indifferent, that we like to pretend it's not happening. But it IS. I don't think this link is any more biased than any other link or quote that others have posted. I guess if the link is removed that I will know how utterly biased they are instead of you.

By the way, how do you know that I am not Jewish myself?

David - I'm not, but the person doing the interview is and the person who recommended the video to me is as well. So if you insist on calling someone utterly idiotic, I guess you can tell it to my friend whose grandmother was in a concentration camp. She obviously feels that the parallels are striking enough and haunting enough to pass the video along. I think she would probably know more about it than you, wouldn't you think?

Since the debate on the article has devolved into the central issue of abortion I think we must all follow the K.I.S.S. method here. The central question is "When does life begin?" The question is not when does human life begin it is just life. So we must look at all life. If I was to go to the Brecksville Reservation, hike down that dirt trail, climb into that bald eagle's nest and toss its egg 50 feet in the air only to have it crack open on a rock, the whole country would be angered. But I would argue that it was not a bald eagle yet. It was still in the egg. Although it had the potential to be a bald eagle it still was not born yet. And I would be convicted under federal statute. The same logic must be applied to a fetus. The fetus has the potential to be human right from conception. It will never be anything else. It will not be an alligator. It will not be a chicken. It will not be a mouse. To say the human zygote or a fetus is not alive is also scientifically incorrect. That is sophomore biology class work here. (Google 7 characteristics of life) Finally Roe v. Wade does not address the inequality of the father of an unborn child and his right to raise a child. It is inherently flawed. Furthermore Roe v. Wade will have to be revisited due to its decision on fetal viability. Science will advance farther than Roe v. Wade to the point were the human zygote is viable at conception. The debate has been over for a long time. the right to life has won.

James Thomas: ..."(and I say try because I believe in a God who knows the dignity of every life through every trial)."
Thank you for finally being honest, James. That's it. "Your god."
You believe your god is the only god and your god is obviously right. Hasn't that mentality started plenty of wars throughout the centuries?
If you haven't looked around in a while, there are many, many religions throughout the world. I'd like to think your Jesus would at least tolerate other religions if not love them because we are all human and all share the same blood, but then again, maybe your Jesus isn't as kind as some of the others I've read about.
There are billions upon billions of people in this world and a plethora of religions, too. Who really knows? No one. Not you. Not me. No one. Anyone who says they do is definitely someone to beware of... The realistic thing isn't that we don't know everthing, it is that we don't know anything. None of us know anything. It's all part of the journey.

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."- Stephen Roberts

I'm aware I've posted that quote before. I hope you understand that quote James, but I'm not sure you will.

The difference between the pro-life people and the pro-abortion people is pretty basic. In a pregnant woman, the pro-life position is that there are two people whose interests are involved, the mother and her baby. The pro-abortion side sees only one person. One cannot logically see the fetus as a separate human being and still support abortion without accepting the killing of an innocent human being.

And you speak of logic, yet make the ludicrous statement that if abortion is murder, why no fetuses have killed abortion doctors in self defense? That is the best that you can do for a logical argument? Wow!

Regarding Republicans being small government (actually not universally true, it's conservatives that are for small government) but wanting to legislate morality, you obvioiusly haven't ever reviewed the criminal code, which is all about legislating morality, from prohibiting theft, murder, trespass, etc. What you miss is that conservatives are all for protecting individual liberty, but when one views a fetus as a separate and completely innocent human being, one cannot support abortion as an option. Conservatives believe that government has a place in protecting the innocent life, and no life is more innocent than that of a baby.

And by the way, you have not only not solved anything with this article, you have only proven that you cannot even articulate a logical argument in support of your position.

This issue can be discussed without God. LETS TALK IN PLAIN DOWN AND DIRTY TERMS SHALL WE? SOMETIMES LIFE SUCKS!!! IT IS A WORLD OF PAIN SUFFERING HUNGER FAMINE RAPE MURDER AND ON AND ON AND ON....
SO ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT ALL THE PEOPLE STARVING IN AFRICA AND YOUNG GIRLS BEING SOLD INTO PROSTITUTION HAVE A LESSER "RIGHT TO CHOOSE" THAN A WOMAN WHO FINDS HERSLEF IN WITH AN UNWANTED PREGANCY?
I mean why does she deserve more of a choice than the millions of children who die hungry , the victims of genocide in Rwonda, i mean the list goes on and on. THE WORLD IS FULL OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE TO ENDURE HELL ON EARTH. . what about the people that are crying out right now? WHERE IS THEIR DAMN 'RIGHT TO CHOOSE?" We need to learn that none of us has a 'RIGHT' to anything. Everything we get is a gift. maybe if we spent more time being grateful for what we have instead of bemoaning what we dont then finding ourselves in a crisis pregnancy is not the end of life. We need to get over this entitlement
mentality.LIfe is a gift. and you dont need to have Faith to believe that. None of us knows what will become of any child brought into the world under the best or the worst of conditions. LIve and let live. Give the child the 'RIGHT TO LIFE"
and the mom can go live her life.Karyn are you a mom? Did you go around telling people you were carryign aorund some cells that you might come to love someday? AGGHHH!!!!!!!!!!

"I hate logic." You wrote that twice in your post, Patrick. And I believe you.

just sharing... visit www.truthbooth.org.

Where were the 216 comments when the catholic priests were raping and abusing children? Why were you not up in arms about this and how the highter ups covered it all up. One question since the church outlaws conterceptives I wonder if the priest who abused the children used protection?

“Well, you can make the argument that if she doesn’t have this baby, if she kills her child, that that, too, could ruin her life. And this is not an easy choice. I understand that. As horrible as the way that that son or daughter and son was created, it still is her child. And whether she has that child or doesn’t, it will always be her child. And she will always know that. And so to embrace her and to love her and to support her and get her through this very difficult time, I’ve always, you know, I believe and I think the right approach is to accept this horribly created — in the sense of rape — but nevertheless a gift in a very broken way, the gift of human life, and accept what God has given to you. As you know, we have to, in lots of different aspects of our life. We have horrible things happen. I can’t think of anything more horrible. But, nevertheless, we have to make the best out of a bad situation.”

- Rick Santorum calls a pregnancy which occurs because of a rape, “a gift in a very broken way”

Let me tell you why every single pro-choice argument falls on def ears when directed at me. 40 years ago someone had unprotected sex. 40 years ago someone decided they could not raise a child for whatever reason. 40 years ago someone decided they would give their child up for adoption. 40 years ago someone decided that adopting a child and giving them a chance at life was a good idea. 40 years later I am writing this. Do you understand what I'm getting at here? The abortion debate always hinges on two things; when does life begin and a woman's right to choose. I wasn't given that option but I was given the third rail of the abortion debate. The one that puts every other argument to shame. The one that no one talks about until 40 years later when the only people arguing about abortion are the only ones not candidates for the procedure themselves.

Abortion is taking a life...plain and simple. There is no possible way to deny that. If the government doesn't protect the unborn who will? Your comment(or disgusting joke) about why no doctor has been killed by an aborted fetus...horrible. In that case, it would be okay to kill a week old baby also...they can't defend themselves either, or for that matter a 2 year-old. How about we not make having children out to be such a burden, and stop being so selfish. No good can come from an abortion, no matter the circumstances. It is not a woman's right, that is ridiculous! We can be strong, powerful, and make great things happen. But let us still maintain a decency and class that we uphold life as the most precious of things. If you say that abortion is not taking a life, you are lying to yourself, If you do admit that it is taking a life, then it is murder. No grey areas, just black and white. Abortion being legal has not made the world a better place, it has only added to the selfishness of it. It is a sad world indeed.